Well, I'm ready to call it...

"Chariotoflove" (chariotoflove) 11/09/2020 at 17:48 • Filed to: Bug out!

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...or pull the trigger, or whatever expression you want to use. I say let’s do the opposite-lock.com option. I see no reason not to.

I diddled with both DriveTribe and the hyphenated site. The later has everything I need to start posting right now with very little learning curve. It feels very much like Kinja, but better.

Pros

easy to use; little or no learning curve

live notifications

actual forum functionality instead of a blog forced into use as a forum

no ads to scroll past and no “you might also like”

It’s ours!

Cons

we will have to maintain and pay for it (because of no ads)

commenting isn’t nested like we are used to; this was a con of other forums I used to use, but I can live with it

no carry over from other sites to bring in fresh meat new membership; we will have to work to not become insular

I think I will still keep DT in my bookmarks though. It seems like a good place to get content when I’m avoiding working, and not completely broken like my commenting on Kinja blogs has been for two years now.

Anyone remember this episode?

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:05

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Please read what Stef has to say here . I agree wholeheartedly with her.

CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever > ttyymmnn 11/09/2020 at 18:08

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I dunno, I can’t see why we can;t have long blogs and see cute dogs.

TEAM BLOGS AND DOGS 2020

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:09

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I definitely am liking o pposite-lock.com but it isn’t available yet. I think we should use Drive Tribe at least as a sort of Best of Oppo like the old Oppositeblog (at t he very least archive that, someone!) but self posted only. It could be a sort of recruiting mechanism. I found Oppo via the Jalopnik comments section and who's to say that won't keep happening while Jalopnik is afloat. 

ttyymmnn > CarsofFortLangley - Oppo Forever 11/09/2020 at 18:09

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Something about the forum format that makes that harder? I’m not sure. 

Nick Has an Exocet > ttyymmnn 11/09/2020 at 18:10

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I agree with Stef that the blog needs to be a major component. I’m working (starting tonight) on bringing the forums posts into a blog format to serve as a front-page for the forum (which would drive the comments). Props to jminer. It’s pretty great and I understand (and applaud) the idea of starting with the community and working back towards to blog rather than blog and working towards community. 

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 11/09/2020 at 18:14

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I had n’t seen that comment, thanks,  but I understand and kinda agree with it. That’s part of my cons list above.

However, I don’t think Oppo’s first best mission is as a collection of blogs. Yeah a few of us used it as a launch pad but that’s a very small percentage. I don’t think that’s what makes us tick now, even if at one time it was once a much bigger part of what Oppo was for. I think there is far more value in having our own home not tied to someone else’s commercial site. Those outlets are not closed off from support by our folk if we keep the forum separate.

That said, this is my view. I’m posting it here because I think we need to make a decision quickly and definitely for the point to not become moot.

Chariotoflove > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 11/09/2020 at 18:17

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but it isn’t available yet

Not sure what you mean by that? It seems pretty available to me. The key is whether jminer says the server setup is stable to support full time duty and load. I thought he was getting to that stage quickly. Maybe I’m mistaken.

MUSASHI66 > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:19

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opposite-lock.com is a great idea, and I applaud what JM did in a few days, but it is not viable. I am the server admin supporting a team of developers, and I can tell you there is zero chance of having one guy running a whole website when he gets some time. I love the idea of the site being “ours” with no ads and you control membership, but there is no way it will work long term. With everything in tech being so fluid, one has to be proactive and not reactive to changes, and I don’t think we’ll have that from one part time developer.

Unless I am missing something - a push to pay money by users into site maintenance - there is no way to compete against DT.

DT does offer pay for subscription if you want to remove ads, but my uBlock Origin blocks all of them. Site is infinitely more responsive and less cluttered than Kinja shit, but it isn’t super user friendly in a few aspects.

My vote is for DM, unless JM can convince me otherwise and tell me my fears about opposite-lock are unfounded.

PS. I’ve been trying to create an account on opposite-lock all day without success. Solution so far? “Try later”, “click more times, it’ll go”...

PPS. 531 users and 310K+ views on DT already. 

Spanfeller is a twat > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:22

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As much as it is brilliant effort, I think the insular issue is unavoidable in a “private” blog site. so, I don’t know... unless we had a very close relationship with other sites afterwards (Which, I don’t think we will) it’s gonna be a very difficult thing to maintain. I’m not as bothered with drivetribe as others are (I’ve been writing a few things there over the year) and I think ultimately the share feature is fundamental to keep this place organic and easygoing.

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:23

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I’m not the person to ask about that but it is still only a few days old and running off a pretty small server. 

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:27

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I commented to jminer over on O-L that I don’t see any reason why we can’t have both. I will come to O-L for shorter posts, good mornings, etc, but throw my long form stuff on DT in the hopes of getting more views. If it turns out to be practical, I’ll put them in both places. Or, I put TDIAH on DT and throw a picture and a link on O-L. 

Chariotoflove > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 18:28

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You would know better than I. I was just going off my experience being a member on another (phpBB-ba sed) forum that had a few hundred users with at least as much traffic as Oppo has every day. It was administered by someone with a day job, with the help of a volunteer moderator core of, I think, four people. It faded when she died unexpectedly, and our life rafts tailed off in membership. But if I’m wrong, then so be it. I’m not a web developer or administrator.

I’ll go wherever as long as the platform doesn’t aggravate me, but I think we need to pull the trigger fast.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 11/09/2020 at 18:31

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In that scenario, couldn’t we just make our own forum our “home” but link out to the DT oppo page for those time when folks want to showcase something more like journalism?

I’m spitballing here.

Chariotoflove > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 11/09/2020 at 18:32

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That’s a development server, I expect. I was assuming we would get commercial hosting if we go permanent, but maybe not. That’s not a decision in which I am involved.

Chariotoflove > Spanfeller is a twat 11/09/2020 at 18:35

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It was already going that way on Kinja. The only crossover we were having was from our membership still commenting on the other kinja blogs, which I’m guessing won’t go away.

But ultimately, I think ease of use and migration is the number one issue to having the deadly membership bleed that kills forums. My understanding is that it more than decimated Oppo membership  when they transitioned to Kinja, and that was a full-fledged commercial concern handling it.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:38

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It’s been my dream for years to have my own site that hosts my aviation writings. I planned that, if/when that happens, I would simply throw a link at Oppo with a big picture and say, “TDIAH: C lick here to read.” I’ve hosted my stuff on Oppo/Kinja all these years simply because it was easier than making my own site, and I liked the way the layout worked.

Tomorrow will be my first opportunity to compare the two editors and find out how much work it will be. One major problem with O-L is that, at least for now, I can’t schedule. DT offers scheduling, but I still haven’t figured out how to make it work right. 

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 11/09/2020 at 18:40

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Good luck!

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:45

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Can't say anything with authority or even passing knowledge on the subject. 

sony1492 > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 18:46

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Thats seeming like a good way to slice it, the question is if the O-L can maintain a regular and large enough community to make it worth the investment.

An aspect worth mentioning is we have lots of lurkers as part of the community, they may prefer tribe even though its not as responsive for anyone looking to really engage in commenting or writing.

Personally Opposite-Lock is the way to go, being  strictly a mobile user tribe dosent work for posting so it cuts me out of writing anything.(and site navigation has too many steps) I really hope we can make an independent site work.

jminer > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 19:01

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Outside of the occasional glitch at login it’s up and running unless I break it tweaking things right now.  I’ll do some work on the login glitch tonight.

MUSASHI66 > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 19:14

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That is my fear. JM gets married, gets hit by a bus, he has triplets, gets a promotion and he’s too busy to work, etc... It is all fun and games and exciting now, but look at it this way. DM already has 500+ subscribers. We have almost 200 people signed up to be notified of changes. We upload images and vides like crazy. I’m just afraid of what the future might bring if we migrate to a homebrew solution with a single admin, and 500+ users and we have to pay for it somehow, moderate it, administer it...

DT makes it simpl e and free, it has a full developer team, and you can pay for premium experience if you chose to. 

Chariotoflove > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 11/09/2020 at 19:35

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Me neither. 

Chariotoflove > sony1492 11/09/2020 at 19:37

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I think that’s a major concern.

I’m wondering if we couldn’t ask DT to host our forum on their servers and link it from their Oppo page. In other words, the reverse. I don’t think it’s redundant if these are that different in what they do. 

Chariotoflove > jminer 11/09/2020 at 19:39

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Folks like MUSASH66 are concerned you don’t have it ready for prime time. I think you would have to reassure them. 

Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 19:42

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Just saw Jminer’s reply. Well, time to break the website. . . . . because that’s basically our job right? I really do like the interface but there’s a lot of tweaking to be had. I do think posts and replies could be better differentiated but I’m also not sure how much nobe limits the flexibility there.

Chariotoflove > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 19:48

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It’s a valid fear, and we would need to guard against it by having more than one person. But still, isn’t that always an danger no matter? Here we are, attached to a successful business concern and we are still going down, albeit by their choice and not from going out of business.

Nevertheless, being on our own is kinda scary. I wonder if DT would host our forum aside from the blog page. 

TheRealBicycleBuck > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 19:53

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Add some complexity to your chosen password. One capital letter, at least six digits, a number, and a special character.

I was having the same problem until I tried using a more complex password. 

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 19:57

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I finally succeeded in registering on there. It is simple, I know nothing about running a site. I am cool with DT, I don’t mind it, we have had a pretty nice welcome so far.

sony1492 > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 20:11

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Thats a great idea.

C onsidering how much they are interested in us, they might.

jminer > Chariotoflove 11/09/2020 at 20:11

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I saw his reply - I deleted a couple bitchy responses already...

While it is definitely work it seems like he’s expecting it to be a high capacity production solution that’s trouble free. We’re not that big at all. Once we get into a stableish state I don’t expect much work to be happening on the back end.

Also I have no idea what he was doing with registration - nearly 140 people have registered (and he has too).  That’s the biggest bug right now too.

jminer > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 20:25

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I mean the site’s less that 72   hours from my first ssh into a server and you’re expecting high capacity production system maintained by a team of developers? We don’t have a million dollar a year operating budget here or a need for one . There are bugs still, most will be fixed at some point.

I’m not going to debate the merits of DT or the hyphen (I do like that nickname by the way) but Oppo has never been about the views, it’s been about the community and relationships we build. Both very much have their benefits and detractions.

There are several other oppos helping me but in a few weeks when we hit a steady state there isn’t likely to be much maintenance on an ongoing basis.

I am acutely aware of how much times these things can take - I’m a team lead of an engineering team that designs/builds/supports systems with hundreds of servers and 20 thousand+ endpoints.

At this point it’s still running on a small scale, it may grow it may not. I’m not here to push one way or the other and built this in response to a lot of opponauts discontent with DriveTribe. This will not likely be our forever home, but it’s an option. Oppo isn’t a large community, but it is a tight knit one.

I think the right answer (as ttyymmnn) said is ‘why not both’. There is a place for both right now, with likely crossposting galore. Drivetribe can drive exposure for some and the hyphen can keep help keep that close relationship that many of us have.

If I came off as short or defensive I apologize, that was not my intent as I know everyone here is hurting with the demise of this much loved community and we’re all just grasping with how to keep going.

DipodomysDeserti > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 20:43

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When you put  it that way, opposite-lock sounds like the most oppo choice.

Shoop > MUSASHI66 11/09/2020 at 20:49

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I agree with this

MUSASHI66 > jminer 11/09/2020 at 21:11

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My whole point is this - do you think it’s a great idea to have one guy working when he can to keep this website up? If the answer is yes, then fine, I can spend time there and I was finally able to create an account. It’s not a bad website at all, and I don’t think I said it was bad anywhere - I actually compliment you multiple times - I just don’t think we can have a highly functioning website in this manner.

But, I’d love it if you proved me wrong. Owning oppo without overlords sounds  awesome!

MUSASHI66 > DipodomysDeserti 11/09/2020 at 21:12

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Really? I know we all like to tinker with cars and stuff, but the endless bitching about Kinja is not the best part of this website. But I guess I am just a dude on a website and if I have two options, I’ll select the one that’s better or use both if  I feel like it.

Chariotoflove > jminer 11/09/2020 at 21:46

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I think you may be right. I am happy to take your words at face value and trust what you say. But it is good to engage and reassure people who have doubts. It’s a crazy time, and people need confidence. 

Chariotoflove > Who is the Leader - 404 / Blog No Longer Available 11/09/2020 at 21:48

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Yeah, nothing is perfect even when you have time to work out all the bugs. You never get them all. As long as we have somewhere reliable to land, we will have time to improve.